U. henkeli sexing help+ opinion on settings

I have 2 subadult henkeli bought at Hamm show in December 2007 ,they must be around 6 months old now and I need to know their sex for sure as soon as possible.

The first one may be a male to me, though I’m far from sure. It is though always very light-coloured, sometimes almost creamy white, and has some very fine dark spots on the sides and on the tail borders. These fine spots occur alongside with large transverse dark parallel markings of indefinite shape on its back.

It is, though of the same age than the second one ,much bigger :16 cm (6 ¼ inches) whereas its mate is only 13,5 cm (5 ¼ inches ) now. The gap between the end of the back of the tail (circled in red on one of the pics below) is significantly narrower ,proportionally speaking ,than in the second individual ,and there are in this area symmetrical spiny scales that are almost absent in the bigger one and obvious on the 2nd.

Tail proportions (I ignore if it has some kind of importance though) are also very different ,the bigger one has a much longer tail than its mate, proportionally to their respective snout-vent length. The tail length difference is in the 20-30% range in favour of the larger specimen.

They share the same viv and they are exactly fed the same diet ,domestic crickets of adult size dusted with CALCAmineral (a product from Germany) every other feeding. I tried to feed them every other day but they won’t accept and only ambush for prey on the 3rd day after their last meal.

The second ,smaller specimen always remains darker than its mate ,has prominent spiny scales (3 symetrical rows ) in the tail-body gap area. It has no fine small spots for the time being ,or very few ,just displaying lighter colour transverse bands on its back at some moments of the day or of the night ,otherwise keeping being dark brown on its full dorsal side.

Here are the pics:

Specimen #1-16 cm full length :







#1 feeding on a large domestic cricket:



#1-another day but still at night :



#1-daytime:



#1-underside:



Note the light colour of the belly.

#1 above and #2 below,at night:



#1 on the right and #2 on the left ,daytime:



Here the differences in tail proportions and overall body hue are quite obvious(#1 left,#2 right):



#2 close-up (daytime):









#2,nighttime:







Please take into account that the camera’s flash makes #2 appear much lighter-coloured than it is really at night ,and there remains a subsequent difference at the same moment between the light-hued #1 and the dark and smaller #2.

#2 ventral view, detail:



Note also that the belly is much darker than in #1.

Not to make 2 threads instead of 1, here are their current viv ,a 40x40x50 (16’’x16’’x20’’ glass tank) with a newly arranged setting:







I used natural live moss in which some grass also grows ,taken from the outside and thoroughly rinsed in clear water, above a layer of coconut mould. I used the same substrate in their future definitive tank which will be lighted and heated by a Hagen 5.0 UVB 26W Eco Bulb; it is a 115 cm high tank (almost 4’) with a 45x45 square basis (17’’):







Long story short…

-Can anyone sex my geckos from those pics with 100% certainty? Please don’t tell me I have 2 males…no,please!

-What do you think of both tanks? Any improvement possible to make them better ,especially the bigger one they will be transferred into when they are both above 20cm/8’’?

i think two male

I don't know what to think.

On GU,a first guy told the same-2 males,then an American member apparently with experience said a male and a female.

And on RFUK,our English partner,a 3rd person with experience said he could see the hemipenal bulges of his young males at 4 months of age...my own youngs are 6 months old or even more and I still see absolutely nothing,no bulge whatsoever!Adn that English person said :2 females.

I think two Male, the females are many "points"

adult female



sources http://www.scserp.com/SCS_Photo_Gallery_Lizards_Geckos.htm
the males have drawing

adult male



sources http://www.chewiechicksreptiles.com/collection.htm

and in comparation i think you have two males

#1




#2

I would agree for #1,but with #2 I am not sure at all...

http://dragonsdasgard.actifforum.com/fiches-lezards-f19/traduction-officielle-uroplatus-henkeli-j-rudge-gga-t1341.htm

Chapter on Breeding:

"It is hard to tell the sex until they reach 6 months of age,then males show marked hemipenal bulges".

That was written by John Rudge,I suppose you have heard of him.

My specimens were bought in December 8th so they are now at my place for 4 months,and I doubt Patrick would have sold me babies under 3-4 months of age,they were around 11 cm in December. So if I believe what John Rudge writes ,I should see hemipenal bulges now they are maybe 7-8 months old if one of them is a male .

i don't know witch sexe they are but i trought their so beutifull
thanks for pics